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Blind People Appeal To Automakers For Noisier Hybrids, Electric Vehicles |
44 Comments |
| By Michael d'Estries in Green Living, Hybrids | October 3, 2007 | ||
A couple months ago, I casually wrote a post wondering aloud if quiet hybrids and electric cars would be a hazard to pedestrians who are visually disabled. After all, it’s quite easy to hear a combustion engine from a distance. Many commenters bashed the post saying that it was stupid to suggest adding some type of small noise to the vehicles. Apparently, these people were not blind.
Today, the Baltimore-based National Federation of the Blind will present written testimony asking for a minimum sound standard for hybrids to be included in the state’s emissions regulations. As the President of the group, Marc Maurer, mentioned, he’s not interested in returning to gas-guzzling vehicles, they just want fuel-efficient hybrids to have some type of warning noise. From the article,
“‘I don’t want to pick that way of going, but I don’t want to get run over by a quiet car, either,’ Maurer said.
Manufacturers are aware of the problem but have made no pledges yet. Toyota is studying the issue internally, said Bill Kwong, a spokesman for Toyota Motor Sales USA.
“One of the many benefits of the Prius, besides excellent fuel economy and low emissions, is quiet performance. Not only does it not pollute the air, it doesn’t create noise pollution,” Kwong said. “We are studying the issue and trying to find that delicate balance.”
The Association of International Auto Manufacturers Inc., a trade group, is also studying the problem, along with a committee established by the Society of Automotive Engineers. The groups are considering “the possibility of setting a minimum noise level standard for hybrid vehicles,” said Mike Camissa, the safety director for the manufacturers’ association.”
It’s obviously a real concern — and I imagine a compromise can be met with some type of gentle noise to make people aware. As someone who recently almost got nailed by a Prius pulling out of a parking spot, I can sympathize. You certainly get used to hearing a car’s engine as a warning that it may move. Granted, the responsibility of not getting hit falls with the driver too — and it seems like so many people are blind behind the wheel as it is with cell phones, distractions, etc.
What do you think the proper noise would be? Hit the article for more.
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tim said,
“What do you think the proper noise would be?”
Barbra Streisand’s voice, saying “Look at me, I’m driving a hybrid!” over and over and over and over.
EricsProjects said,
TreeHugger.com had an article about an electric car manufacturer that uses horse hoof sounds to warn pedestrians.
Maybe something like that could be incorporated.
I would want very “organic” sounds rather than mechanical sounds.
Maybe there could be an aftermarket for sounds, like ring tones on phones. Galloping horses, heard of elephants, swarm of bees…
Steve Balogh said,
I vote that it should be the noise from the Jetson’s cars. heh heh. After googling, trying to find the sound file, seems like it gets the votes of many other writers…
Chris said,
I vote for the Jetson’s sounds…
matthew said,
Keep the car quiet, it’s not being marketed to the blind.
In fact, create a law banning blind people from crossing the street. They’re only putting themselves in danger by crossing.
ORRRRR, make it mandatory for the blind to wear inflatable pads all over their bodies.
If you are blind and reading this; I’m sorry if I offended you.
Carrotts said,
Why not put lolly sticks somewhere near the wheels so that it makes a “motorbike” noise
Rob said,
“I don’t want to get run over by a quiet car”
yeah, and I’m sure zebra don’t want to be eaten by a quiet tiger either, but it happens.
It’s natural selection..
deal with it.
David said,
Preferably a noise emission that would be relatively directional and short range: just enough to warn pedestrians that might be in or about to move into the path of the vehicle.
At higher speeds, cars make a lot of noise just from the tires and wind. But we should reduce noise pollution where possible.
Sam said,
Why not just make cars broadcast an infrared signal, or some such thing and have products available for the blind that will receive the signal and alert them to the danger? Maybe a wristband that gives a gentle squeeze, or a earpiece that tells you which direction they’re coming from. ie. car coming from your left
Sestos said,
How would people get run over? If your crossing streets at the correct locations, should not effect blind people any more then anyone else. Now, if your just jaywalking across streets because you do not hear anything, then who is more at fault. The idea of reducing noise pollution seems more important. I myself have a 2004 Civic Hybrid, and the car is only silent when its stopped and the radio and AC are turned off. Otherwise even when not running the gasoline engine it already produces noise.
Paul said,
What rubbish. We need to reduce noise for all vehicles! Blind people don’t go wandering around on their own, they’d end up dead. They have very well trained guide dogs for when they need to go out.
Besides, Just because a Prius may not have its internal combustion engine, there’s still a fair amount of road noise from the rubber resistance on the road surface.
Niel said,
“One of the many benefits of the Prius, besides excellent fuel economy and low emissions, is quiet performance. Not only does it not pollute the air, it doesn’t create noise pollution,” Kwong said.
As someone who drives a prissyarse told me you need to use the horn far more as ped’s, even with good eye-sight, don’t notice it!
As for ‘does not pollute the air’ what about all the extra energy building it consumes, with attendant pollution, and the disposal too!
EPS said,
These people must be out of their damn minds – there is already far too much noise polution in the world, and they’re trying to eliminate one of the cars thats actually quiet?
Ian said,
This ’sounds’ all very low tech. All hybrids and future EVs could have a transmitter on board. Perhaps RF or IR. Visually impaired people would own receivers that have an ear bud. If a car comes within so many feet they hear a tone with the volume increasing as the car gets closer. Perhaps a range of frequencies could be employed that produce slightly different tones so more than one car could be distinguished.
If I was on an interstate, would I be allowed to turn the sound off?
Bob said,
The blind complainers have no case.
1) They should be walking on sidewalks. If they get hit here, it’s due to the reckless driver, and they likely would not be able to do anything about it anyway.
2) They should only cross at designated crosswalks, same place as anyone else. Again, if they get here, it is due to a reckless driver who ran the light, and it is unlikely that the blind person would have been able to react and make a decision to avoid getting hit (this is assuming that the blind people being interviewed have not developed bat-like mobility based on non-visual queues).
The only reason I can see them complaining, is if they wander too close to the edge of the sidewalk, but that’s what canes and guide-dogs are for.
Seth said,
Put baseball cards in the wheel spokes. Your moms just going to throw them all away when you go to college anyway.
acoassin said,
It’s not just the visually impaired. There was an article shortly after hybrids became available about emergency crews saving people involved in accidents with Hybrids. They can’t tell if the engine is running, and frying the people saving you with electricity is typically a bad idea.
Bubb Rubb said,
I gots da perfet solution:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccgXjA2BLEY
Woo WOOOOOO!
Neilson Moondela (not my name) said,
This whole article (and some of the replies) summarize how wrong most thinking seems to be these days. Make cars LOUDER – what?!?
We seem to forfeit the rights of the many for the few in almost every instance today, ignore the important and deify the irrelevant and elevate the petty and ignore the essential.
Why is it so hard for people to see this?
There is almost no clear thinking anymore.
Mel said,
Wow, what ignorance from people about the visually impaired… It’s one thing to just not know much, but another thing to post stuff on here acting like you know it all.
I am legally blind, and let me explain to you why the blind community certainly has a case here. To the person who said blind people should be walking on sidewalks – Okay, fine. But what happens when there is no sidewalk? Or when I need to cross the street? Which brings me to my next point…
Blind people cannot SEE, so they use their HEARING a lot to determine when it’s safe to cross a street, yes, even at a DESIGNATED crosswalk. They listen for traffic patterns to determine which way cars are coming from since they cannot see the flow or traffic lights changing. Not to mention certain locations where there is not much traffic and say, only 4-way stops. If a car has started coming across that is silent and the blind person assumes it is safe because he or she cannot hear it, it’s hard for that person to stop suddenly to keep from hitting them. So THAT, my friend, is how a blind person could get run over by these quiet cars. It is a real and legitimate concern.
Also, NO, not all blind people have a “highly trained guide dog.” Guide dogs are truly wonderful, but they do not work for every blind person.
I hope that the NFB is able to truly make a difference here, as well as other blind organizations. It is obvious also that the general public is in need of a little bit of education. : )
Murdoc said,
I can’t believe how ignorant some of you are.
1. Have you been hit by a car? Probably not. Let me tell you from experience it hurts like HELL!
2. If someone hits my legally blind wife with their damn hybrid, I will do everything in my power to shove your entire car up your rear and make it my personal mission in life to make you suffer.
3. How can people be so insensitive to people with disabilities… you guy s must be elitist liberal socialists who want to weed out all that aren’t perfect. Ahh I knew the next Hitler would come out of the US!
Ms. Murdoc said,
Please forgive my husband’s hateful comments. He hasn’t been the same since I informed him that he smells in bed.
Seth said,
“We seem to forfeit the rights of the many for the few in almost every instance today, ignore the important and deify the irrelevant and elevate the petty and ignore the essential.”
So when you say that, you realize thats its essential for people who are blind to be able to cross the street and its petty to complain about the noise a car makes, right? Right?
And when you were talking about sacrificing the rights of the many, how exactly does a car making noise so those who can not see are aware that its in the area sacrifice your rights? Your right to what, a quiet street? Only having to listen to 10 cars drive by instead of 11?
Its really that selfish attitude that summarizes how wrong most thinking is these days.
Billy said,
There’s already a mandatory noise-making device that comes on all cars. It is usually mounted on the steering wheel and goes “beep, beep”. See a white cane or a guide dog, tap the horn.
Kern Ramble said,
I question the safety of this couple. I mean, the wife is blind, yet the husband is one that’s been hit by a car…
Is this a case of the blind leading the sighted?
Kelli said,
Many of the comments here are really insensitive and uninformed. I don’t think you’ll find many jay walking blind people- that would just be a recipe for disaster and incredibly stupid. As a legally blind person living in a small town, I can tell you, most of the crosswalks here are at small intersections and places that don’t have lights (and our walk/don’t walk signs don’t beep, either). It’s absolutely essential to be able to see or hear where the traffic is and where it is going if you want to be able to cross the street safely. I can definitely see how this could be a problem, particularly in heavy traffic areas, because I’ve encountered it before.
Not every blind person has a guide dog. They’re wonderful, but there’s also usually a lengthy waiting list to get one and there are a lot of people out there who are partially blind or near blind that have difficulty seeing to cross a street, but don’t have vision “poor enough” to qualify for a guide dog. It’s not something you just go out and buy at the local pet shop.
I hate crossing streets. I do everything I can to avoid it. I think many of you making harsh comments here don’t appreciate what you have and don’t realize what it’s like to be afraid to walk across a street, because you know you can’t see, and there’s always that chance that there’s that one car you didn’t hear.
Close your eyes and try it sometime.
Dave said,
I have seen and been around the Prius many times and it definately is a quiet car but even at low speeds you can still hear the tires on the pavement so it isn’t entirely silent. It should be the responsibility of the driver to not hit people with the car and the pedestrian to be safe enough to not put themselves in a position to be hit by the car. Why are we looking for ways to regulate and force the makers to increase the cost of the vehicle by adding a noise creating device. If a blind person can’t see the car they should still be able to hear it otherwise they must also have hearing problems and probably shouldn’t be out on their own unattended. If a minimum noise level is set for the blind what about the deaf? What if they aren’t likely to see the car? A deaf person wouldn’t benefit from putting a minimum noise level in place. Should we line the surface of the vehicle’s exterior panels with rows and rows of LEDs to the point the car doesn’t have a paint color and then make the LEDs flash as the car moves down the road only to attract the visual attention of someone who is incapable of hearing the car?
At some point we have to stop passing along our own responsibility to others and become responsible for ourselves. If we keep building fail safes for every little ridiculous scenario at some point we will no longer have any luxuries at all such as quiet vehicles. If we have to put something in place it shouldn’t be something that puts the rest of us out. Why not a small device that can detect any sort of large oncoming object such as a car or bus that can send a signal to the wearer but doesn’t require every car out there to be equipped with some sort of transmitter. They could do this with a simple camera and laser with cpu to process the data. Instead of the blind complaining why doesn’t at least one of them work on a solution such as the one I have suggested. We are all about passing the responsibility of solving our problems on the the next person but never about trying to find the solutions and implement them ourselves.
Haley said,
Some of these comments are completely ignorant. How does a silently moving vehicle at speeds of 30-100+ mph sound like a good idea to ANYONE? Car sounds are warnings for ALL pedestrians, in parking lots, at cross-walks etc, not just the blind. This is a valid issue and I am glad the blind community is bringing it up.
tourcandyland said,
Ok, how about this, try crossing the street in a crossing walk when the little cherping signal goes off. If you get hit against the signal then there are other issues. As a Prius driver I would tell everyone, blind or not, don’t step out into the freakin street between cars dumb ass.
Stephanie said,
As a Prius owner, I quickly realized that I have to be extra careful in parking lots and places where I’m diving too slow for the gas engine to kick in. People in cars back out in front of me and pedestrians walk out behind my already moving car when I’m backing out of a space.
The funny thing is that Toyota put a “backup beep” on the INSIDE of the car (you cannot hear it outside at all). I’ve always thought that was totally backwards. I already know I’m in reverse.
Mel said,
“Ok, how about this, try crossing the street in a crossing walk when the little cherping signal goes off. If you get hit against the signal then there are other issues. As a Prius driver I would tell everyone, blind or not, don’t step out into the freakin street between cars dumb ass.”
I guess you have never been to a small town where they don’t have *chirping* signals.
Mel said,
“Instead of the blind complaining why doesn’t at least one of them work on a solution such as the one I have suggested. We are all about passing the responsibility of solving our problems on the the next person but never about trying to find the solutions and implement them ourselves.”
Dave, I guess you do not know anyone who is blind, or else you would realize that the world is most certainly made for sighted people and that we as blind people are ALWAYS having to adapt to that fact every day. You should try going blindfolded for a day, or a week, and then tell me that I should have more personal responsibility. I am a very independent person and I do a lot of things to accommodate for myself because of a lack of vision. But there are certain things that I think the rest of the world should at least be sensitive to, especially when safety with 2 tons of moving steel is at stake! Would you also suggest that ramps be removed from curbs and buildings so that people in wheelchairs just have to accept the responsibility and find a solution themselves??
Tim said,
I want a choice of “powertrain” sounds on my Prius! I want a Maserati, Kenworth, Bajaj, you name it! Speaker in hood compartment tied to synthesizer that has samples of various vehicles with an extra input for RPM. Maybe throw in some chirping tire sounds on those hard accelerations.
Mel said,
LOL Tim… that’s a good idea, let the people choose their sound… if I could drive that would be fun to choose my own sound for the car. : )
David said,
Mel, you make excellent points. I can relate to Kelli as well since I also live in a small town and I am also legally blind. To those people who say use crosswalks and sidewalks, that’s fine. But I can tell you from personal experience, that unless there is a traffic light, most motorists IGNORE them and fly by. I’ve even had it happen where I have been IN a crosswalk and the vehicle went around me nearly hitting me. I won’t stoop to the level of the folks who are ignorant, I’ll just say that you need a reality check. Hopefully the NFB gets what they want.
FredW said,
The important thing is finding, as the spokesman for Toyota said “that delicate balance.” As a Prius owner I think the best solution would be some sort of IR or radio frequency warning device. I sure wouldn’t want to drive or buy a car that beeps all the way to work.
And for the record…
“Some of these comments are completely ignorant. How does a silently moving vehicle at speeds of 30-100+ mph sound like a good idea to ANYONE?”
Don’t accuse people of “completely ignorant” comments and then make one yourself. There’s no way you can drive 30-100 in a Prius silently. It DOES have a combustion engine, which does make noise. It just doesn’t always run at slower speeds (mostly 1-30 mph) depending on the level of acceleration.
Annie said,
Good Grief, I have just listened, yes listened to all of these comments, some totally rude, insensitive, and just down right ignorant. I mean the comment about natural selection , what a jerk. I am blind and travel, ( that means getting around my town etc to all of you sighted individuals ) with a guide dog. She is there to keep me safe from stupid and impatient drivers, as some of you seem to be. But it is not the dog that knows it is safe to cross the street, some of you not so bright people may not realize this, no , they can’t tell when the light changes, the person lets the dog know it is ok to cross. This is done, as mentioned by others, by sound. We listen for traffic, the way it is flowing, what side it is on, etc. Once we determine it is safe, we then tell our dogs to go. Now , if a car pulls in front of us, as many many do, the dog will stop me to keep us safe. Apparently in broad daylight some of you can;t see an 85 pound german shepard, and a grown woman. And as another person mentioned, not all of the lights in my town have the chirping sound either. Degrading the blind community as some of you have is disgusting. Live your life one day blindfolded, and you will see how something so minor, in your pitiful minds, can make a huge difference. The blind community does not consist of helpless individuals who can’t get out and about, we are an extremely independent group. I personally walk to and from college, weather permitting, 4 days a week. I can’t tell you how many drivers, with loud ass cars have nearly hit me and my dog over the last 2 years, simply because they had a lot of the same impatient ignorant attitudes that many of you apprarently have. To imply that we have no business being out on our owns sickens me. What’s next for some of you to bitch about, kids in wheelchairs ?
Jim Sum said,
What do blind people do about bicycles? They are even quieter than hybrids and a bike going 20 mph can do some damage.
This is only a potential problem when hybrids are going slow; at higher speeds the gas engine is usually running, like any other car. This is only a hazard for parking lots, where is isn’t very smart to depend on hearing. Beside the risk of being hit by a bike, it is also possible that a louder sound could drown out a noisy car that is about to hit you.
Gary said,
What about installing a sensor to turn sound on when the engine is off and, depending on which direction the vehicle is traveling, when an object is a certain distance away from the front or back of the vehicle. Just a thought.
Roland Mösl said,
Noise is some sort of terror. People wanting more noise on the street want more terror. So this is simple a request for terror.
Leah said,
Gary said,
October 8, 2007 at 6:36 pm
What about installing a sensor to turn sound on when the engine is off and, depending on which direction the vehicle is traveling, when an object is a certain distance away from the front or back of the vehicle. Just a thought.
Best idea yet!
Joanne said,
Don’t you DARE add noise to my hybrid! Who are these people that they wield so much power over carmakers as to make them ADD NOISE to a vehicle. Is it not enough that people can hardly sleep with ambulances, planes, cars, fire, alarms, smoke alarms, and beeps all around them, now they have to deal with millions (billions?) of cars around the globe adding noise into the atmosphere, which will move and be heard day and night through the air and cloud cover, disturbing the sleep and nesting habits of every living thing?! NO WAY – This is one mission that needs to be stopped in its tracks and I will writing as many strongly worded letters as are necessary to try to stop it. By the way, if a person isn’t competent enough of a driver as to not hit people on the street, they should be giving up their license. Signed, a Prius Owner (who hasn’t killed a person yet…)
California Senate Approves Bill To Add Noise To Hybrids » GroovyGreen.com - Start Today :: Save Tomorrow said,
[...] Remember all that talk about hybrds and electric vehicles being too quiet? Well it appears that all that petitioning from groups like the Federation of the Blind has turned into some heavy legislation coming out of California. [...]
Bob Wilson said,
September 30, Governor Schwarzenegger vetoed SB 1174, the California version of “Bell the Hybrid”, HR 5734. He pointed out that ‘noise’ has nothing to do with ‘air pollution.’ Given the shortage of Prius, many of us hope Maryland bans them and sales stop. We need those hybrids in the rest of country.
June 23, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration held a hearing on “Quiet Cars” and the record is available at http://www.regulations.gov – search “NHTSA-2008-0108-0020″ for hybrid electric owner opposition. The facts are between 2002-2006, the available accident data, not one blind has been killed by a hybrid. About 5 blind die each year from ordinary vehicles, primarily SUVs and pickup trucks. It turns out the Prius has the same pedestrian accident rate as ordinary vehicles.
The NHTSA Chidester report on ‘Backover Accidents’ revealed 25 kids die every year crushed under rear bumpers and engine running exhaust pipes. One of the anecdotal stories the blind repeat, someones foot being run over, was actually another backover accident and backover accidents do kill.
The blind already have problems with ordinary traffic, severe problems. But putting noise makers on hybrids will only make them just as deadly as ordinary vehicles and blind pedestrian safety will not be improved.
When this Congress ends, HR 5734 will fade into the obscurity it deserves. Hopefully, the next Congress will not be so foolish as to declare hybrids “extremely dangerous” but let NHTSA traffic data tell us where to spend time making pedestrians safer.
Bob Wilson