 |
71% Think Global Warming Has Nothing to do With Man’s Actions |
45 Comments |
| By Aaron Newton in Climate Change, Education, Green Living | June 26, 2007 | ||
And they aren’t blaming women either. Pocket Issue and AOL have issued a press release that shows the results of 4000 people polled with almost 3 out of 4 believing that human actions aren’t causing global warming, with 65% going further to agree with the notion that scientific findings on this issue are “far fetched.” What strikes me as odd is how people all over the radio are claiming this as proof that global warming just isn’t our fault. “If that many people believe it isn’t true, then it must not be true,” goes the logic in resposne to a statement by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change that says global warming is,
very likely due to the observed increase of anthropogenic [man-made] greenhouse gas concentrations.
Very likely, they later clarify means 90% sure. But this recent poll doesn’t surprise me. Least I forget,
Even today, more than four years into the war in Iraq, as many as four in 10 Americans (41 percent) still believe Saddam Husseins regime was directly involved in financing, planning or carrying out the terrorist attacks on 9/11, even though no evidence has surfaced to support a connection.
Closer to home, more Americans are able to name Jordin Sparks as the winner of the most recent season of American Idol (18 percent) than can identify John Roberts as the Supreme Courts chief justice (11 percent). source
But that’s to be expected right? We’re too busy watching American Idol to be bothered with the “reason” we’re fighting a war, let alone who is in charge of the high court in our land. But before I go too far in picking on poor Americans I should remind myself that this phenomenon of mass disillusion is not a recent invention of our nation in the modern era. Plenty of people didn’t believe the first folks to point out at that the Earth is round or that cigarettes cause cancer or that our solar system revolves around the sun. For at least three centuries after Copernicus wrote Commentariolus explaining that last little idea the catholic church wouldn’t allow such a “theory” to be printed in Rome. Hell, the church just got around to pardoning Galileo in 1992 for defending it!
But we seem especially good, as a society, at ignoring scientific evidence these days. As proof I offer the fact that we even have three Republican candidates for president who think they can’t get elected unless they publicly admit they don’t believe in evolution. Me personally, I don’t believe Prezident George W. Bush is real. The “evidence” is just too overwhelming.
So call it a group sickness or a mass denial or a twisted reality we just have to get used to. Plenty of people will believe what ever they want to believe and if they don’t want to believe that their behavior is largely responsible for global warming and the subsequent global climate change due to severely impact our children as well as increase the mass extinction among God’s creatures here on Earth, well, there’s probably not much you’re personally going to be able to say that will be able to aurally compete with talk radio propaganda. Those guys have heard the uninformed masses speak and that’s proof enough for them that everything is A OK.
Is there a bright spot? Well maybe there is. This time last year the same Joe Q. Public I’m picking on wouldn’t even admit global warming existed. I can tell you one thing, they’re going to have a hell of a time with peak oil.
Loading ...
maxmsf said,
just amazing that we’re still even talking about this isn’t it. But I guess I shouldnt be surprised, it’s just as amazing that we’ve gotten ourselves into this mess in the first place, exactly what we deserve. Let’s just hope that the few become the many, soon.
mememine69 said,
MODERN DAY WITCH BURNING
Guilt, fear, blame and ignorance fuel the cultural phenomenon of Climate Change. Mother Nature is strong, adaptable, and resilient and not a delicate balance that needs human stewardship. The Clean Air Act and other accomplishments in environmental laws since Rachel Carsons time in the 1970s have made our world cleaner, safer and well protected. We are living longer than any society in human history and addressing global warming hysteria will not make the sky any bluer nor solve all of the worlds problems. Being happy IS an option. CO2 and Methane are two of the building blocks of life and are emitted from our bodies, are required for plant growth, yet have been demonized by EnvironMENTALisms urban myth. Yes, even PhDs and the UN are susceptible to human frailty. History will laugh at us.
dan said,
you are truly a bigot
aaron said,
Guilt, fear, and blame are all negative emotions involved in any mistake. But youre right, ignorance is fueling the global warming debate. Were the debate based on the best scientific facts available, I wouldnt be writing sarcastic blog posts about the unwillingness of others to actual read a book or listen to a lecture because American idol is on again. My favorite is when individuals want to argue with me about Al Gores movie but when I ask them if theyve seen it they say no. They want to argue about something theyve never seen. That is ignorance. That is what my post is about. Just because you don’t believe it doesnt make it untrue. Go and educate yourself and then bring back the facts. But not just one lone voice who doesnt publish peer reviewed work. There will always (read the post again) be people willing to refute real evidence. There are people still today who believe the world was created in seven 24 hour days and that it is only 6,000 years old. I want to see evidence that weighs as much against global warming as a man-made event than the evidence weighing in favor of it as a largely a result of man.
“Mother Nature is strong, adaptable, and resilient” and doesnt give a damn whether human beings stay or go.
“The Clean Air Act and other accomplishments in environmental laws since Rachel Carsons time in the 1970s have made our world cleaner, safer and well protected.” In some ways this is true but as a species we are still devastating this planet driving thousands of species into extinction and laying waste to vast sections of the Earth. We cant consume the entire Earth and remain on it.
“We are living longer than any society in human history” The U.S. ranks 44th worldwide in life expectancy despite the fact that as a nation we use 25% of the oil consumed each year, spend more than double what any other nation spends on health care and spend more on defending ourselves than all other nations combined. Yes we live a long time historically speaking, but we dont need to burn copious amounts of fossil fuels to do so. We spend a lot on medical care because we eat too much, we are too stressed and we dont get enough exercise. We are using our dollars increasingly to press our economic interests militarily which requires our leaders to scare us into coughing up that cash. There is no reason we cant live a long time by refocusing on the health and well being of the entire planet and its human and non human citizens alike.
“and addressing global warming hysteria will not make the sky any bluer” Wrong. Fewer miles driven WILL make the sky bluer here in Charlotte, NC. Yesterday was a code orange ozone day meaning it was unsafe for young children and the elderly TO BREATHE THE AIR OUTSIDE. Personally Id like my daughter to be able to breathe outside so less driving please.
“Being happy is an option.” You are quite right. Turning a blind eye towards our problems by rejecting science wont lead to long term happiness though.
“CO2 and Methane are two of the building blocks of life and are emitted from our bodies, are required for plant growth…” Too much vitamin A or vitamin C can make you sick. Any compound can occur at too high of a level.
“…EnvironMENTALisms urban myth.” Now youre just being silly with words.
“Yes, even PhDs and the UN are susceptible to human frailty.” I think you say this because you want to believe youre contribution to global warming isnt causing a problem; not because you have evidence to their contrary.
“History will laugh at us.” History is already laughing at us.
In all sincerity, please drop any preconceived notions and go educate yourself about this topic. It is very important. Read something in depth and come back to tell me what you think. And maybe Ill lay off the sarcasm as it seems I might just be hardening the resolve of those who want to believe all is well.
Global whaaaa said,
“Groovy Green” huh? How many of you have really really long grey hair to go with your tie-die shirts?
John Lee said,
Doesn’t surprise me at all. Just look at the statistics on how many believe that man was created 6000 years ago by a all-powerful, all-knowing god, and how many believe that humans coexisted on the earth with the dinosaurs. Scienctific results are not something you “believe” in. Science is a process of trying to examine explanations of natural phenomena. And if you never had to do any science (just look at a typical high school course) then it is very difficult to understand what any scientific result is, or how it might be challenged or revised or contested. Much easier to just scoff and watch Idol or MuchMusic. So if we take the results of the latest IPCC report as the best available summary todate, are we prepared to do anything about it. Clearly not as there is not political will to address it. We certainly will in the coming years find out which of the various scenarios outlined by the IPCC is closest to reality and it is not going to be pleasant. Not for us in the USA and certainly not for the third world.
Susan K said,
AOL subscribers are very probably 70% stupid. That is hardly a scientific sample of opinion.
Many polls show most other nations know whats up. China even 88% knowledgable about the science. We have been forcefed by the $16 million dollars in Exxon funded lies for over a decade and it shows among the gullible, like AOL users.
suppepuppe said,
I’m really worried about guys like aaron. I don’t want to fight with any of them, because I surely miss the arguments to convince even the slightest global-warming-fanatic. But I still would like you guys to take a deep breath and try to have a more distant, less panicking second look at the problem in question.
I myself do not believe in MAN-MADE global warming anymore. Yet I believed in it a few month ago. Then I read some pretty interesting counterpoints, one of which was about evidence on many other extreme climate changes within the last few thousand years (long before man-made CO2 and all that). Some of you should consider searching for information about this, unfortunately I only know a german book about it.
I think the problem is, that you are really biased. You tell others to educate themselves and find counterevidence, while you yourself seem to be unable to accept any counterevidence. Furthermore you get really agressive on anyone questioning you view, because you think it’s an urgent problem, and there’s no time left to loose. I think you should try to be more neutral cause that would give you more time to have a second look.
I really like mememine69s statement: History will laugh at us!
Sure, aaron I know, that history is already laughing about guys like YOU. I find it amusing myself. Have you heard of the “global cooling” movement just a few decades ago? Unfortunately I forgot which industrial gas it was by then, that they supposed to be the reason. Don’t you find that funny yourself? global cooling?? Now that we face a global warming. We humans seem to be pretty fast and powerful in changing the planets climate.. Probably we are just a little overconfident, don’t you think?
Have you looked up in the sky recently? Did you see the sun? there is an incredible mass of chemical reactions going on.. Isn’t it more likely, that a small change in this unimaginable huge thing will change a lot on our little blob of a planet??
There have always been guys like you, and I know, that trying to convince you is like talking to a brick wall.
Therefore: go on trying to keep your breath in as long as possible, don’t take the car, hooray for nuclear power plants and all that.. pffff..
mememine69 said,
I have educated myself on the subject of human induced weather and was at one time a believer of the theory. That was almost 25 years ago when the IPCC said that we would be drowning in boiling water by now. Skeptics I have found are well versed on the subject because we have traveled the road from believer to skeptic. We know both sides of this non-issue. I’m a full-fledged global warming denier, skeptic and atheist. It’s pure pop culture. The only science involved is political science.
I’m a member of the Union of Concerned Scientists in good standing by the way.
Jason said,
71% of people are apparently able to do their own research and avoid the mass hysteria surrounding this issue. Good for them.
The real question is whether climate science will ever recover from this ridiculous, fabricated crisis.
Anonymous said,
71% of Americans Think Global Warming Has Nothing to do With Mans Actions…
WTF? Pocket Issue and AOL have issued a press release that shows the results of 4000 people polled with almost 3 out of 4 believing that human actions arent causing global warming, with 65% going further to agree with the notion that scientific finding…
mememine69 said,
1) The industrial revolution supposedly caused global warming. So you would have to be a creationist to believe it since the volcanoes, forest fires and comet hits before that, dont exist in the theory. In other words the earth is not like a stagnant fish tank. Every bit of dirt in the air since the beginning of time is not still floating around up there. Precipitation cycles clean our atmosphere obviously. Otherwise how would you explain nice, pleasant sunny days on this so-called toxic wasteland of a planet?
Polar Bears not only live in northern Canadian municipal dumps, they were at one time indigenous to as far south as Minnesota 300 years ago. They were called Yellow Bears because of the summer coat they retained longer, but still the same species of bear.
2) There would have to be a corresponding shortage of Oxygen if there is too much CO2 from combustion that needs Oxygen as its fuel, correct? There is more Oxygen consumed in the combustion process than CO2 expelled. You global warmers would be better off predicting a future shortage of Oxygen.
3) Up until the theory of GW, climate was complex, little understood and the last frontier of science. Now, we know everything about it? So much that we can predict hundreds of years ahead now?
4) Consensus: The Union of Concerned Scientists whose members are factored into the majority of scientists agree include myself as a member. No questions asked. I tried joining the American Union of American Steel Workers but they said I had to be a steel worker.
5) GWrs cannot describe a climate of the future that would prove the theory as being completely false. It is impossible since they consider all climate conditions as global warming. A self-fulfilling prophecy?
6) Remember 2006? Not one single hurricane. OOpps!
7) Greenpeace, the Sierra Club and The World Wildlife Fund all confess that our environment since Rachel Carsons time has improved immensely. Yes a sample of air from back then is dirtier than a sample of air from today. Then they changed the rules to make CO2 that comes out of our lungs, (is required by plants and is one of the building blocks of life) a toxic pollutant. And Methane, one of the other so-called poisons, also a building block of life and is expelled from our rectums, is also now a toxic pollutant? I thought Disco was whacked.
9) A theory can only be proven with cause, effect and result. Result as in time. And since all theories have predictions, where are they? Its been 140 years since the industrial revolution and the theory itself is 25 years old. Where are the doom and gloom predictions? Is this mass delusion?
10) GW rs say it is too late to stop Global Warming. Shouldnt we be able to stop something we started? Not logical.
11) Why is Canada spending almost as much on new ice breaking ships for its so-called melting arctic as it is spending on CO2 controls?
12) Wasnt it scientists who polluted our planet with their chemicals in the first place?
13) Post Rachel Carson environmentalism and post Betty Friedens feminism are both pointless and after the fact political dogma. We should be celebrating the accomplishments of environmentalism instead of reverting back to witch burning with fear mongering.
14) Future generations will refer to CO2 Emissions and Disco in the same joke. Climate change caused by humans is cultural, not scientific.
15) If the car had not been invented, would the resulting enormous amount of horses needed by now produce the same effect with their Methane and CO2 emissions? Just as 1900, have faith in progress.
16) Why are we not investing in REAL dangers we KNOW are immanent, like Tsunamis monitoring systems, lightning rods, tornado sirens and satellite warning systems for immanent comet impacts? You know, just as a precaution, for our childrens sake. We need Tsunami monitors built everywhere and a comet-killing station on the dark side of the moon. Hell, why dont we prepare for the sun burning out in a few billion years? For our childrens childrens sake.
17) Carl Sagans silly Prediction of a nuclear winter from the first gulf war oil fires puts to rest the notion that all scientists are perfect and noble. Canadas Dr. David Suzuki, geneticist, broadcaster, Order of Canada recipient, environmentalist, father and family man has predicted that we can someday stabilize our planets weather.
18) You would have to be the type of person who gets up crying every morning to be so pessimistic as to google enough to convince yourself that life is NOT pretty good right now for us humans. We are healthier, safer and living longer than before sewage treatment plants, chemically safe drinking water at every tap, drugs that keep my blood pressure down and my years on earth longer. So is guilt that makes us act like paranoid, pampered veal? If our weather isn’t perfect, our produce not ripe, our houses not so spacious, our cars not so reliable, our Internet speed not fast and our cable on, we whine like liberal crybabies. Life is good. Our climate is not in crisis.
19) Since CO2 is measured in one hundreds of a percent in the atmosphere and Oxygen in percentages, CO2 remains a minor greenhouse gas and thus a minor issue.
20) The Medieval Warm Period was significantly warmer than temperatures today and was a golden age for agriculture, innovation and lifespan. The media ignore evidence that would deflate global warming fears and exaggerate that which cuts their way.
21) Good liberals march, protest, doubt, question and challenge. Bad liberals (global/goggle warmies) get in line like obedient lemmings and repeat outrageous dogma. Our mainstream
You see its all about attitude you global warmers. Stop looking at pictures of Polar Bears, smoke stacks and falling ice on the net so much. Look up into the blue sky, take a long deep breath of the crisp clear air and love life for a change. Global warmers not only see the glass half empty, they see it evaporating, and they see dangerous microorganisms in it, dangerous chemicals and endangered species.
Scott said,
I used to think Earth was getting warmer because of us, but I’ve changed my mind. People keep saying the question is settled, but we can’t even predict the weather for tomorrow with any real certainty, so how is it we think we can model the climate for the next 100 years? Fact: Mars is getting warmer and has been losing its ice caps at a rapid rate for the past three years. The other planets are also getting warmer. Also, CO2 is released as a result of heating, not as a precursor to it. Water vapor has thousands of times more effect on heat exchange than CO2. And when I hear scientists say that it hasn’t been this hot since (pick your date over the past 10,000 years), I have to ask: what caused the rise in heat back then? Let’s stop scaring ourselves to death — the world is not coming to an end.
C0y0t3 said,
I find it surprising since I hear nothing but continuous ravings that the sky is falling, seas rising, ice caps melting, cyanobacteria propagating, coral dying, hurricanes increasing to the tune ad naseum. There is a lot of research money dependent on the anthropogenic global warming conclusion – we aren’t stupid, on the contrary, we know bullshit when we hear it, even shouted by ignorant mobs with good intentions and cynical outlooks.
C0y0t3 said,
Comment by aaron June 27, 2007 @ 9:37 amIn all sincerity, please drop any preconceived notions and go educate yourself about this topic. It is very important. Read something in depth and come back to tell me what you think. And maybe Ill lay off the sarcasm as it seems I might just be hardening the resolve of those who want to believe all is well.
You sound just any other “true believer”, you just don’t realize it. Go and educate YOURself, without the preconceived notion that global warming is man made.
While you’re at it, consider this: what if it’s a natural sun caused cycle and we can not stop it? Do we really want to do all of these crazy expensive things that will prevent third world nations from industrializing and pulling themselves out of poverty? How about this ridiculous attempt to switch to so-called green ethanol that is going to cripple the world’s food crop production?
Really, read something not written by a research scientist with his hand out, have a listen to the sane and practical voice of reason – if you can hear it over your own zealotous shouting.
Dr. Carey said,
I have tertiary syphilis.
Gary said,
Well, I’m a National Merit Scholar, and have Engineering degrees from Purdue and Stanford. I’ve never seen any compelling evidenced that human activity causes global warming. Opinion surveys, or “what most scientist think” are just baloney. Trends and correlations that are no more than covariance are baloney. For example, it is easy to show that as the density of churches goes up, the crime rate goes up. This is not cause and effect. Both go up as population density goes up. Show me the facts. Where is the analysis: sources, sinks, etc. Its all so obviously biased.
I’m shocked at the number. Hooray!
Jojo said,
It is indisputable that the overall temperature of the Earth is increasing relatively fast in the last century and that this increase WILL affect our lives and economies. What is in question is the amount of contribution that humans are making to the problem. We certainly are contributing something. But ideally, human contributions should be neutral, not contributing anything. That should be our goal.
brenton said,
I’m going to have to defend aaron here folks. Mememine69, here are you counter arguments.
1.) It’s through the study of historical global warming events that scientists have deduced that this warming event is caused by man.
2.) You’re right, there should be a shortage of oxygen. And, there is. But, that gap is being filled by the oxygen that is stored in the ice caps. Scientists at NASA have proven this by following the fossilized oxygen isotopes. BTW, you stumped me with this one. I had to look it up. Thank you!
3.) Yes, it’s difficult to understand. Global Warming is a theory. It’s a study of a trend, which is reinforced by new data every year. I for one would rather heed the warnings that continue to stumble forward hoping they’re wrong.
4.) Don’t know what point you’re trying to make.
5.) The projected future scenarios are based on warming temperatures. If Global Warming due to human causes is false, and the warming is just happening because, what is there to describe differently?
6.) Hurricanes are a popular target. They truth is, no one said there would be MORE of them, they just said they would be STRONGER.
7.) I think aaron already disputed this one. There is too much of a good thing. Drinking too much water will kill you. It was even in Al Gore’s movie that CO2 IS a good thing. It’s just too much is bad. Why is that so hard to except?
8.) Climate will aways change, and species will always live in and move out of areas. If earth changes on it’s own, so be it, nothing we can do about it. But, if we’re the cause, we should fix it.
9.) Cause: Additional CO2 released due to human combustion of fossil fuels. Effect: High levels of CO2 in atmosphere causing global temperatures to rise. Result: Higher global temperatures. This much has been settled on as proven theory
10.) When scientists say it “can’t be stopped.” What they’re talking about it a certain temperature rise. They believe that certain actions can prevent a certain temperature rise that will bring our global temperatures down, or at least to a more balanced level of gradual change.
11.) I don’t know, I’d have to ask Canada. But, if I had to guess, it’s because the ice shelf is thinner now so that ice breakers work. There must be some capital gain in their use.
12.) Well, it was scientists who created the chemicals. It was industry that over used them. You can’t fight innovation, you can only hope to direct it
13.) We should celebrate, and we are. That’s what Earth Day is all about! But, just because you accomplish something, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t stay vigilant and see something through.
14.) How can accept more CO2 as causing Global Warming but say it’s not due to humans but volcanoes, then turn around and say there’s NO warming and it’s all cultural? You’re arguments boggle my mind
15.) This is a tangent, and I don’t see how it’s disputing anything. And, again, you’re using Global Warming science as fact to make your argument.
16.) Personally, I think you’re right on all of those points. We should, and I hope we will
17.) Again, a tangent. Now you’re on a rant about all science in general. Stating if one scientist is wrong, they all are. Please take a course in Discrete Mathematics.
18.) So, by your logic, because the numbers are small they don’t matter? So one small bullet could never kill an obese person because it’s only one hundredth of a percent of their total weight?
19.) The medieval warming period was isolated to Europe, it was never a global event.
20.) Global Warming is only now becoming mainstream. In point #15, you said, “have faith in progress.” Progress has been made in our understanding of how we as people can effect the planet. Embrace it, understand it, and live with it. All that I see you doing is creating poor arguments so you don’t have to face this Global Warming as an iconoclasm.
And Gary,
“Both go up as population density goes up.”
You’re saying population density of the root cause. Well, the science around global warming is saying CO2 is a root cause. Why can’t you accept it?
Unbeliever said,
The Global Warming Alarmists don’t seem to realize that it is not in their best interest to denigrate the Unbelievers. Without a reasoned, logical and polite discourse, they assure that no progress toward resolving the situation will take place. They *must* to convert the Unbelievers, because without global cooperation, the movement will fail.
Be polite and back up your beliefs with scientific proof. You may want to start by explaining how multiple Ice Ages have come and gone without the interference of mankind and his inconvenient presence. Secondly, explain the scientific community’s confident assertion in the 70’s, that we were entering a Global Chill.
stiven said,
The only fact that we can count on is that we live in a world made up of shades of gray. Almost nothing is black or white, not even climate change theory we live in a world where people jump on and off bandwagons as they become popular especially politicians.
The argument should not weather climate change is real or not but weather what we are doing to supposedly fight it is the right course of actionhistory is not in our favor.
There are much more attainable and proven environmental issues that we should be focusing on but the whole global warming phenomena is currently pushing these equally important things aside.
Yes, global warming has been high jacked by politicians and commercialized by big business. This is surprisingly not a total disaster because as a society we have at least moved beyond just ignoring the environment all together. I am far more worried about the way sustainable design and development have been sort of cannibalized by the global warming debate. In the last two years these have been slowly sandwiched together by the mainstream media as one concept under the global warming brand.
http://www.sustainableday.com/?p=44
brenton said,
Unbeliever,
Ice ages have come and gone. If you look at the ice records, and if you believe that what’s happened in the past will happen again then, we should have come out of our warming period about 10,000 years ago. We should be in a period of steady cooling (which we have up until 1910ish) for tens of thousands of years, until another major warming period that would bring us back to where we are today.
The proof that this is man made is that we’re supposed to be in a cooling period, not a warming period as we currently are. That’s why they started studying it and found huge amounts of CO2, well above any data from the past. They know it’s from us because they can actually detect through radioactive isotopes where it comes from. Our scientists know how much comes from coal, from oil, from volcanoes, from ice, everything.
As for the 1970s cooling scare, that has all been tied to CFCs. The dawn of aerosols happened in the 1940s. Remember the hole in the ozone layer? That was CFCs and was also causing severe cooling. The cooling ended the same year, we as a global community, banned CFCs around 1979! It’s all pretty cool (no pun intended). Check out the temperature graph from the IPCC.
Unbeliever said,
Brenton, your “proof” is less than compelling. Why did the temps fluctuate in the past and why can’t that be the same cause now? To merely say that we should be in a cooling period as of a specific decade or century for that matter, based on 10,000 year cycles is silly. We simply don’t have that kind of precision in our data. One study I’ve seen states that it is unable to pin down with the necessary accuracy any historical data spanning less than 3 centuries, yet we are claiming the sky is falling based on a few decades.
As for the 70’s scare, it merely points out the folly of believing the scientific community and media hype based merely on their say so without looking deeper. CFC’s weren’t identified as a culprit initially, so what are they overlooking now that they will find years from now and say “never mind”?
As has been mentioned in earlier comments, and I think it may be the biggest hurdle for the GW crowd to overcome, is the simultaneous warming of Mars. Incredible cosmic coincidence, or proof that the ball of fire in the sky might have something to do with the whole process?
FTR, I agree that we are warming. I just don’t see that we are the primary cause. And until I see better evidence of cause and effect, Occam’s Razor points to the Sun.
brenton said,
Unbeliever,
Our scientists are not basing the cycles on a few decades of evidence, they’re basing it on over 400,000 years of records collected from ice core samples. View the graph here. It’s obvious that you haven’t seen “An Inconvenient Truth.” I’d recommend watching it as it describes the temperature records very well. Another great film is “Dimming the Sun.
As for your Mars/Earth joint warming, I just read the article. But, Abdussamatov’s theory is wildly disputed at the end of the article due to the fact he neglects Mars’s wopple and that atmospheric gases play ANY role in planet temperature.
There were some studies that pointed to solar radiance that seemed to be following our temperature patterns but, they deviate severely after 1980 with absolutely no correlation so the study was thrown out.
I’m glad that you agree earth is warming. Regardless of the true cause of global warming, most of the proposed solutions will help our society in the wake of climate change. Conservation, recycling, energy independence, sustainability are all needed techniques for surviving in a warmer and unpredictable future.
Thanks for the new info BTW (the Mars thing). It wasn’t something I’ve read yet.
Truthfully, I really hope that Global Warming IS due to humans because, at least then we can do something about it. It scares me more to think that it’s out of our control.
brenton said,
wopple = wobble…lol
Unbeliever said,
Brenton, no offense but I have too much skepticism to take anything I see in a movie as fact, especially when it concerns something as complex and polarized as this issue. (I believe Oswald acted alone, Oliver Stone notwithstanding, and Houdini did not die performing the Water Torture Trick.)
But I think I’m not communicating myself clearly enough with regard to the assertion that we are overdue for a cooling trend. Even 10,000 years overdue isn’t irrefutable evidence of Man’s hand. Mother Nature doesn’t run according to such a strict timetable. The graph you cite shows dips within peaks and spikes within valleys that are consistent with the fluctuations we are seeing now. That the graph isn’t smooth merely emphasizes the flaw in thinking that we must be at a particular temperature at a particular moment in time or something is terribly wrong. Apparently God plays dice with the Earth, if not the Universe.
As I said before, the historical data is too rough to interpret to less than a 3 century span. Yet, we are now making dire global predictions when we couldn’t get the facts right just over 30 years ago using directly observed data.
Taking steps to combat global warming may have the effect of helping society, but it also runs the very real risk of devastating developing countries and wrecking the worldwide economy. All the more reason to study further and be absolutely certain that we are not merely following along with the latest Hollywood and Beltway fad.
Deb said,
Let’s see, global warming aside. Are we or are we not polluting the water and air with our current practices? Will reducing our dependency on fossil fuels for energy be beneficial? Can we save money by conserving energy?
Just wondering if anyone has looked past the forest to see the trees?
brenton said,
Unbeliever,
I think the only area where we diverge here is, I believe that: If you see a problem that threatens your life, and you do some studies that point to it being your fault, you make steps to correct the problem. If you end up being wrong, the worst you did is try.
I don’t understand this concern over developing nations since we (as Americans) have never a concern over it in history. We’ve done nothing BUT exploit other nations at their expense. Why is doing this thing to benefit the planet so taboo, but say, outsourcing beef production to South America that slash and burns millions of acres of rain forest, devastates ecosystems, uproots thousands of native peoples from their land, all to bring us our 35 cent hamburger seen as, “OK”?
There’s a double standard here. Truth is, Corporate America doesn’t like change and having anything to do with something that’s going to cut into their profits. That’s why we live in a republic, not a democracy. It’s the duty of our Government to say “tough doo-doo,” this is what you have to do to promote the healthy life of it’s citizens because we took an oath to do so, and we see a risk here.
…
Man, if you ever find yourself in Maryland, let me know and we’ll have coffee!
brenton said,
Deb,
Yes, we are polluting our air and water.
Yesterday, was the 6th code orange day in the DC area. An earlier aaron mentioned issues with code orange days in Charlotte, NC. I also don’t have to tell you about L.A. California either. High ozone days are a direct result of the burning of fossil fuels.
As for water, how many beaches are closed every year due to water unsafe just to swim in. Or, the dead zones in the Chesapeake Bay (1/3 the entire bay last year). Or the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico. Or, the Pacific dead zone.
What about mercury in fish? Something that would vanish almost over night if we simply stop burning coal!
We’re not “standing in a forest.” We’re in a vacant field, staring at a handful of trees, hoping it BECOMES a forest.
mememine69 said,
Remember how we were told that particulate pollution of our air from volcanoes, nuclear bombs, forest fires, comets and industrial pollution would darken the atmosphere and cause nuclear winters and cooling? Maybe we should offset warming from these invisible greenhouse gasses with more air pollution? Its just as nonsensical as the global warming theory.
The whole mindset of global warming stems from our instinctive nature as humans to not sh!t in our own nests. This is why we surrender to the theory as we rationalize it by saying to ourselves that we must be doing SOMETHING to our planet. I say our contribution to our environment and weather is a drop in the ocean, or less.
Sleep tight.
brenton said,
Mememine69,
You are correct, and those types of measures have actually been proposed. I recommend you watch “Dimming the Sun” which I linked to in an earlier comment which goes into explain that very principle.
Global Cooling is Coming said,
Great Global Warming Swindle
Global Cooling is Coming said,
"Greenhouse Effect," expressed as % of Total
Based on concentrations (ppb) adjusted for
heat retention characteristics
% of All Greenhouse Gases % Natural % Man-made
========================= ========= ==========
Water vapor 95.000% 94.999% 0.001%
Carbon Dioxide (CO2) 3.618% 3.502% 0.117%
Methane (CH4) 0.360% 0.294% 0.066%
Nitrous Oxide (N2O) 0.950% 0.903% 0.047%
Misc. gases ( CFC's, etc.) 0.072% 0.025% 0.047%
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Total 100.00% 99.720% 0.280%
-------------------------------------------------------------------
mememine69 said,
BRENTON,
Your belief is more like faith. Its too bad that this cultural phenomenon we are currently experiencing wont allow us to even appreciate something as simple and pure as a sunny day. Now its a high UV day. We are producing an entire generation that will not know the simple pleasures of being outside. Will the safe confines of the nearest shopping mall fulfill our primal needs for experiencing the environment? We fear the unknown even though the air is fresh and clean as the life giving sun warms our chemical sunscreen covered faces. Its looking more and more like an episode of Star Trek or something. History will laugh at environMENTALISM.
mememine69 said,
Do I believe in global warming? As in humans causing weather global warming? Hell no. Im a global warming denier, skeptic, non-believer and fullfledged global warming atheist. We look up into the blue sky and see these invisible demons. We cant even say SUNNY DAY anymore. Now its a HighUV day. And what are these invisible demons? Well, one is coming out of my mouth as I speak, CO2. One of the building blocks of life, plants need it to produce life and it makes my beer nice and fizzy. And the other (my favorite), Methane, another building block of life, and well, that one comes out of my assho!e. And this is how the planet is finally meeting its end after billions of years? Now you know where they get the MENTAL part of environmental. Trust me, there is nothing more organic than bull$hit. Sleep tight.
Sean said,
Hey All,
Try to keep things real. No surprise that global warming is the current ’sexy story’ in the press…the press always needs one and broader environmental issues had their day several times in the past, the 70s, again in the 90s, and today the Pamela Anderson of eco-consern seems to be global warming.
So keep it real…scientists ARE observing significant climate change around the world. Scientists have also observed that many natural ecosystems, many that we rely on, are changing significantly. And yeah, both the Earth and humans are highly adaptable to change but some of them may not be so pleasant. I know a lot of people could care less, but these changes will definitely affect plant and animal species negatively.
Is global warming manmade? Scientifically, the verdict is still out. More importantly, if you know how science works, you know that the verdict will ALWAYS be out. Science can NEVER prove anything. Science actually advances by disproving things. Yes, science can provide data that supports ideas and theories, but they can never prove them because tomorrow, you may find something that contradicts your theory. The fact that science, which is a tool for exploring the natural world, allows you to do this is what makes it so valuable.
Another important tool in discussing any such issue is the precautionary principle which basically asks “how much information do you need on something before you can make a decision”. The way I describe this when giving presentations is to have people imaging stepping on to an airplane at the start of a really great trip, say to Hawaii. And then you see 1 rivet pop out of the plane. Would you still step on and go on the flight or not. Some would still go, some wouldn’t. Lets say you see 10 rivets pop out. Now what? But don’t worry, the Captain says hundreds could pop out and the plane would still be safe. Would you go? Again, different people will want different levels of information before they make this decision. Another example, how much evidence was needed for an individual or a government agency to decide smoking is bad for our health. There was always lots of evedence that supported this, but there was also that one story of someone’s Grandma that smoked like a chimney and lived to 108. Global warming is the same thing for a lot of people. How much evidence is needed for an individual, a business, or a government to decide accept the theory and then act on it accordingly.
My biggest concern about global warming getting all the press is that it takes the spotlight off of the many other pressing social and environmental issues that deserve attention. Loss of biodiversity, lack of clean water, air pollution, ubiquitous cancer-causing agents, etc.
mememine69 said,
Sean,
“Loss of biodiversity, lack of clean water, air pollution, ubiquitous cancer-causing agents, etc.”
My attitude and you are welcome to join me in this, is that if I take an observational approach to environmentalism instead of a “crisis” one, there is little if anything to worry about. Since Rachel Carson’s time we have produced environmental laws that have made our lakes, streams, rivers and drinking water safer than in any time in history. We have access to safe and plentiful food and human longevity is at an all time high. Cancer rates are down and a sample of air from today is cleaner than 50 years ago according to Greenpeace etc. What is a concern are our low levels of tolerance and our high levels of expectations. Both are out of whack making happiness almost impossible. If we all just stopped to appreciate how good we have it, how blue the sky is, how we are not chocking on contaminated air, we would see how much cleaner and safer our environment is. Lets make a pledge to stop looking at pictures of drowning polar bears, smoke stacks, smog and falling ice on the Internet and look at the real world around us. EnvironMENTALism looks at the glass of water not only being half empty, its evaporating, full of chemicals and micro bacteria, some of which may be on the endangered species list.
Celebrate the achievements of environmentalism and cast aside the crisis mentality. Lets get real.
karlos said,
Mr. Mememine, I cant help but wonder if you work for a skeptic tank getting funds from somewhere. You seem to miss the great points that Deb and Sean have made. What is so threatening to you about the worlds populations and industries cleaning up their act whatever the reason? So what if we clean up and find that there is no global warming. The point is we cleaned up. We did what we could for the benefit of all species and nature. I think you should look at your motivation to write so many comments about this. Are you the type that has to be right in a discussion or are you really so into changing peoples perception on the global warming issue that you cant see the benefits of new markets, cleaner production methods, alternative energy or whatever technology may bring us. Who could possibly have anything against that except somebody afraid to loose their position in a market? Its like the old betamax versus vhs discussion and guess what now we use dvds and internet. So move on why dont you?
mememin69 said,
Think tank? Well if it isn’t another Senator McCarthy deomonizing a skeptic. Sure I’m a skeptic. I’m a non-believer. I’m a global warming athiest because not only is global warming just a cultural myth, so is the our climate in crisis mentality. Look around. Where is it?
You Liberal Greenies Hate Life:
You hate life.
You hate the CO2 breath from a babys lungs. You hate the sun and use its rays as liberal guns.
You hate different ideas, and love only yours. You hate everyone who isn’t obediently down on all fours.
You hate nature, saying it is delicate and frail. You hate the possibility that the earth could be as tough as a steel nail.
You hate the blue sky and call it brown. You hate others who dont walk about with a frown.
You hate a god given planet full of life. You only see suffering, toil and strife.
You hate and abort the unborn and allow same sexes to wed. You hate the incandescent light bulb beside my bed.
Liberals used to question, challenge and doubt. Now they bow, obey and pout.
global warming said,
global warming is becoming such a obvious problem that someone somewhere other than Al Gore needs to step up to help drive the bus!
mememine69 said,
In 2013 the IPCC will celebrate 25 years (a quarter of a freakin century) of predictions gone wrong.
Obvious! Global warmers will look Soooooo silly very soon.
mememine69 said,
Just look at that gorgeous glistening full moon glowing through our rapidly dissolving ozone layer and yet,
The sunset with its gleaming colors waits yet another year to show the full and deadly greenhouse effect.
Come on global warming I know you will show up some day, I just know you will
Because only then will I see a decrease in my annual heating bill.
The romantic breeze that blows through the tropical Florida palms sways to and fro
As I sit back and wonder who back home in Detroit is shoveling my snow.
Heat waves are now called summer, rainstorms are floods and the sun is nothing but cancer and more
We thank ye god for providing such wonder, with fear, terror and misery from good old Al Gore.
Al Gore Hates Life:
He hates the CO2 breath from a babys lungs.
He hates the sun and uses its rays as liberal guns.
He hates different ideas, and loves only Al Gores.
He hates anyone who isn’t obediently down on all fours.
He hates nature, saying it is delicate and frail.
He hates the possibility that the earth could be as tough as a steel nail.
He hates the blue sky and calls it brown.
He hates others who dont walk about with a frown.
He hates a god given planet full of life. He only sees suffering, toil and strife.
He hates the unborn and allows same sexes to wed.
He hates the incandescent light bulb beside my bed.
Good liberals back in the sixties used to question, challenge and doubt.
Now they bow, obey and pout.
BillJ said,
How many times do we have to prove anthropogenic global warming before people wake up?
Gastric said,
What are the statistics of people who lambast deniers yet still belive in holistic medicine????
Uncle B said,
The record breaking loss of sea ice is a tragedy for mankind. It will be overshadowed and partially remedied however, by another man made tragedy; The collapse of the American and perhaps the free world’s economy. Just think, the greedy Capitalists have accomplished in a few days, what the Green parties of the world, in their wildest dreams could never have hoped to accomplish – an unprecedented reduction in carbon emissions by the collapse of the American Empire! In the days to come, the dollar will be grossly diluted, causing $14.00 gallon gasoline, Jet flights by corporate types will disappear, limos will rust in their parking lots along with Corvettes, Mustangs, Caddies and other large engined behemoths. People will take buses and rail in a communal effort to survive, and saving the environment will be a byproduct. Large, smoke belching industries will dry up and join the Ohio rust belt, fading into anonymity, Power plants will face reduced demands, since common folk will not have money for electricity or the gadgets that burn it. In general, CO2 emissions will be drastically and thankfully reduced, and the “Greens” will not be blamed! We Win!